That will put anything down.But if it comes time to kill a man should there be any fun in it. I am at a loss for words as I read the above two paragraphs like literally at a loss for words. Wouldnt waste my money on it. All of this leads directly to the question of handgun wounding factors: the effectiveness of a handgun, lethality by caliber, and stopping power are all important considerations when purchasing a firearm for self defense. Also, I have pretty much explained what you have just said. Regards Jim, Sorry for the typos are you speak to text because I cant text like my child. In those 53 years, weve built a reputation as one of Texass most trusted firearms dealers, and we did it in a state where sellers of used guns are almost as common as oil wells and prime rib. High-velocity Take this for what its worth. Officer Needs Help!!! Bob. But with my Kimber Colt 45 I hit first shot no problem and it left that watermellon in disaster. He sure has screwed us military retires over the last several years! Fair testing without the bias of budgets and the need to carry what every one else is carrying would be quite refreshing and lend more to the safety of the officer or soldier who may be fighting his or her life. When fragmentation occurs, the permanent cavity expands rapidly and dramatically. Its all about follow up shots. The projectile tears through the body causing tissue damage and creating a wound channel. The projectile, a 7.62 x 39 bullet, hit the House majority whip with between 370 and 1,550 foot-pounds of force. In the technical language of ballistics engineers, the standard unit of measurement for a bullets mass is grains of metal, and depending on the manufacturer, a .7.62. can weigh in at 125 grains. Owned a model 29 .357 And the quicker the better when someones fanning a gun at you. So modern ammo IS NOT the reason to switch back to the 9mm. Now marine I hope your watching now instead of using glock 19 in a 9mm counterpart here is a better suggestion why dont you use a glock 21 4th gene to insure ur fellow colleges a better a faster on the spot accuracy with zero recoil it will enable them to be more successful in hitting targets. All animals died pretty much on location. WebThe 45 will but them down and bleed them out real quick with a gut shot, the 9mm will have them flopping around and may not stop them from firing back, also from the pools of blood near the bodies the 45 does more damage. I still prefer the .45. But I understand the 9 isnt on level with the 45 and know unless a headshot presents itself I will have to dump my mag 7+1 into whoever makes me engage them for a favorable outcome. Thats funny. Thats what I pack in the deep woods. Even a frontal gut shot must penetrate seven or more inches in slender adults for reliable incapacitation. Nobody I know whos been in the service liked the M9. I owned a 9mm years ago and liked the gun, though the grip was too large for me due to the double stack magazine. All this is much different than the British Armys approach to marching headfirst into conflict, taking aim and firing. .45 in Nam and owned one for several years. 15 -25 yards lol I can hit you in between the eyes with my co2 bb pistol. I have been hand loading my rifle and pistol ammo since 1975. Not to suggest that a skilled shooter (and/or soldier or Marine) couldnt shoot it, but almost anybody is going to be faster with a 9mm in their hands. Source: Most rounds fired do not hit anyone at all. Looks like a Chinese-made toy gun. But a high-muzzle weapon shatters that bone into hundreds of microscopic pieces, in a way that cannot be repaired. end of discussion. Yes, Im another old Viet Nam Vet. I can shoot consistently accurately. Slow-motion videos of ballistics tests clearly illustrate this difference. He is the current USPSA Carry Optics Colorado State Champion and most recently won 3rd place in Master Class at the 2022 USPSA Carry Optics National Championship. True. Gunshot Wounds But the guy kept on coming. All rights reserved. After decades of witnessing the 45 vs 9 mm battle. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. They are a secondary source at best. But you have no proof that the .45 ACP will work that much better. But in the Kaos of combat (especially at dark:30) your intended target isnt usually going to present itself and just stand there for your perfect shot placement. Id use either! F=MA is not applicable. WebIn real life the tissue damage of the .45 compared to the 9mm is much more and ingame atm the difference is minimal. You fire lots and lots of them through das maschinepistole and drown em in hot metal until they fall down and stop trying to kill you. Developed in the early 1960s, the .223 round was first used in Vietnam. The penetration of various materials can be of great assistance in the investigation of shooting incidents. If you use .22 mag, muzzle flash is pronounced and may have some fear factor with its use. A round put through the central nervous system of a target is likely to be incapacitating regardless of the caliber chosen. No lab test can tell you how likely a round is to drop an assailant, but they can tell you how destructive a round is upon impact, which is the best metric youre going to get. Phantom Other human tissue in the body reacts differently. Some bullets are so fast, they dont deliver the force of the bullet. I carry 9mm JHP for EDC and also use JHP in the .40 High Point. Now lets get back to today in time and we do have very good defense ammo so most of the time Id agree that the 9mm is equal to any other round out there today for human sized targets and smaller as well. I much prefer the 45 acp and have used it on game from deer to moose and it always was my go to gun. It stood there looking at me. It is the concept that will underlie this entire article. With a bone thats been shot with a standard-issue caliber handgun, youll see a break, a hole in the bone, and maybe some displacement. Handgun Wounding Factors: A Caliber Effectiveness Guide for Self Defense and Body Damage, Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License, Best Self-Defense Caliber and Damage to the Human Body, Effectiveness of Bullet Wounds: How Gunshot Wounds Work, What Happens When You Get Shot: Damage to the Human Body. Witch in reality are only good enough to fight yourself to a long gun I have 2 Henry levers that shoot the same .357 having 3 weapons. Yes, Hugh, I have shot both rounds into a human and I can say this. Most people shot with long gun rounds they tend to be doa . You're free to republish or share any of our articles (either in part or in full), which are licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License. I had a neighbor when I lived outside Fort Worth. The reason is recoil. A tenured officer responded to a violent male mental on a *TD bus. I also am a NRA Certified Instructor and gunsmith in Colorado. The Krag was a failure for two reasons. Is the debate on 9mm vs. .45 (or .40) settled then? When theres no more powder burning to push the projectile, it decelerates. Fire Rate: 240 1SGT. As for accuracy, I hear a lot of my friends talking about the accuracy of their 45s over a distance compared to my 9 mm, but no one to date has outshot me on the range, and almost all of my friends have switched to a 9 millimeter in the past few years. Police, f.b.i., military have smaller people with smaller hands that need to be accomadated. first handgun i ever fired was glock27 .40SW she was snappy at first but 16 years later and after shooting lots of .45 and 9, i am back to .40SW for HD purposes. THAT shot better make a change. So anyone reading this, you should check this gun out. Its proven knowledge. We can, however, find the most destructive round we can handle and train with it regularly. Both are great calibers. .45 ACP Damage Body Shots Head Shots Sounds Firing (9mm) Firing (.45 ACP) Reloading Swapping To Rarity The Vector is a rare SMG that spawns mainly in Hatchet Cases in the Hydra Bunker and rarely in the Storm Bunker (10% chance). No vest..and since it was my idea.I Shoot First! Just happened to recall the powerful 10 auto cartridge. What you provide is false true and true. You get the idea. He taught criminal law/procedure at the FBI Academy. The past 45 years never needed more than one shot. Just as many others I was forced throughout a 25 yr L.E. We were allowed to carry bone stock ( night sights ok. weapon purchased at our own expense ) Smith and Glock 21s ( It was the 2nd Gen Glock era. The damage was far too extensive. Heating effects, occurring mostly around 2.45 GHz (which is the frequency used in microwave ovens) Ionizing effects, which can damage human body and cells; Here is a picture of how the radiowaves penetrate the human body according to the frequency. If a 9mm bullet barely misses the heart or aorta of an adversary, but the heart or aorta of that same person is creased by the slightly larger .40 or .45 caliber round, it can be said with conviction that bullet diameter, expanding or not, really does matter. Anyway, stay tuned we shall wait and see. This accurately stuff doesnt make too much sense when you have a bonsai charge advancing on you and your rifle was not available. Police, f.b.i., train. Adamantinomatous craniopharyngioma cyst fluid can trigger I usually only post on the Reloading and Springfield portions of this forum, but I feel it needs to be stated of course that all the well educated and sincere folks who have posted actual facts regarding calibers and flung mass "shapes" are simply trying to destroy the internet and forums like these. We traded all the 9s some years ago for the 40 which give knockdown power plus multiple rounds. of a gun, it flies at more than 3,200 feet per second, and is still going 1,660 feet per second after traveling 500 yards. An entrance wound is surrounded by a reddish-brown area of abraded skin, known as the abrasion ring, and small amounts of blood escape through. Can someone comment on this? 24 Round Magazine now only decreases reload time by 5% rather than 20% like before. interacts online and researches product purchases Tissue inside the human body is remarkably elastic, even vital organs such as the lungs, bowels or circulatory system. Because recoil obviously cant be observed and you have to shoot someone huh, I heard of a police officer shooting a dog 6 times with a 9 mm before being able to incapacitate the dog. The rifle round, which is longer than a pistol projectile, likely also began tumbling after its point collided with his hip. Heres what they found it did to those enemies bodies, as republished in New York Times reporter C.J. It has less recoil, is less expensive and its penetration apparently compares favorably with the larger-sized rounds. Ive seen too many people want to hunt but do not have ability to take a animals life. Steel BB or 0.177" lead pellet at 450 ft/s will burst a human eye. The 1986 FBI Miami shootout between eight FBI agents and two serial bank robbers was the deadliest and most violent shootout in FBI history. Why bullet size matters in police shootings | PoliceOne.com Asking that question around gun owners is like bringing up religion or politics at a party. And both my wife and my son HATE the Kahr (makes their hand hurt). Are there exceptions? As I have read your comments and, also read many debates including what science says. Shot placement is the deciding factor. Real world combatants or keyboard commandos. Has anyone thought of learning how to control the .45 instead of wimping out after the first shot? Since 1959 we have striven as a family-owned business to build a gun shop that is here to grow with your family. As a medical provider who fractured his back, making a house call in Alaska-dealing with chronic pain issues-I have talk to our local Police Captain. Thanks for reading and commenting!! Since the mid-2000s, gunmakers catering to consumers who increasingly buy weapons for self-defense have produced fewer of the small-caliber handguns like the .25 or .32, and more of those 9mm and larger. The energy delivered to the target increases geometrically along with increases in mass, and exponentially with increases in velocity. Youd be much better served with HOT 357 mag loads or a 44mag. The argument about effectiveness, capacity, reliability, stopping power, etc has been going on as long as I remember, ad nauseum. There are two effects of electromagnetic waves on human body. Patrick states that since vital organs are located deep within the body, it should be obvious that to ignore penetration and permanent cavity is to ignore the only proven means of damaging or disrupting vital organs. Remember it is massive blood loss that causes circulatory collapse. As Sir Isaac Newton pointed out a few centuries ago, for every action theres an equal reaction in the opposite direction. Sorry for the lengthy comment just my humble opinion. At 10-20 yards I want a .45. for all the same reasons. The 9 mm and the round for the 9 mm is by far the cheaper not the better choice! Now let me add a little something about 9mm vs .45. Still, I think when we're talking about pistol caliber handguns, it's pretty hard to measure any substantial accuracy differences when we're rarely shooting at distances greater than 15-25 yards if that. Also, I question how much influence the logistics command had over this conclusion. I'll tell you what DOES impact penetrationit is the frontal area of the bullet and its relative friction and resistance as it impacts a body and attempts to travel through. Any weapon is only as good as its owner, making the person behind the trigger the single greatest factor in how much stopping power a gun ultimately yields. One other thought dont ever modify the trigger on your self-defensive gun if you ever have to use it in those situations and lawyer finds that out he will own everything you have. Lexipol. Circulatory collapse results from massive bleeding caused by bullet wounds primarily to the heart, other major organs or major blood vessels of the torso. I imagine humans are the same. Not everyone can adequately conceal a full-sized Colt 1911. For damage; within 50m against soft targets I want to say it goes 7.62 >.45 > 9mm. I have not fired it yet but have dry fired it some to get back in tune. Steel BB or 0.177" lead pellet at 200 ft/s will detach part of the coloured portion (iris) of a human eye leaving what appears to be a second pupil. That much is true. Obama wants us dead. Theres no reason to mince words a handgun for self defense exists to create damage to the human body. 25 ft same situation, I was surprised at 50 ft when my 45 actually tore the watermelon to shreds even more so than 15 and 25ft, the 9mm remained the same, 100 ft I actually missed 3 times with my Walther q4 9mm before I hit. But the modern bullets are getting better all the time! Do Not Sell My Personal Information, If you need further help setting your homepage, check your browsers Help menu, Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness,, Lethal Force and the Objectively Reasonable Officer,, FBI Training Division Justifies 9mm Caliber Selection, supervisory and municipal liability in law enforcement.
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